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Continuing
“Hey, Viv!”, I say, as we’re all being shuttled onto the bus which will take us to our hotel, “Toss me one of those miniatures, if you please. Yeah. Of course, Vodka’ll do. It’s bloody dusty round these parts.”
Viv chuckles and asks if anyone else wants anything. He’s a consummate scrounger and somehow sweet-talked a demure and pulchritudinous female Air China cabin attendant out of her phone number, Email address, and a case of 100 airline liquor miniatures.
That he looks like a marginally graying version of Robert Mitchum in his heyday and speaks fluent Dutch, French, and Italian might explain his success. I mean, a guy with four ex-wives can’t be all wrong, right?
He’s a definite outlier in this crowd. We could be characterized as a batch of aging natural geoscientists who collectively, sans Viv, add up to an approximate eight on the “Looker” scale. Besides the years, the mileage, the climatic, and industrial ravages, it’s a good thing we all have expansive personalities, as most of us are dreadful enough to make a buzzard barf.
But, save for Viv, no one presently here is on the make. Oh, sure; we’ll all sweet talk some fair nubile into a free drink or a double when we really ordered a regular drink, but we’re all married, most terminally, that is, over 35 years and counting. The odd thing is that save and except for Viv, none of us married folk had ever been divorced.
That is strange, considering that the global divorce rate hovers around 50%, and we are often called to be apart from kith and kin for prolonged periods. However, we are always faithful and committed to our marital units and those vows we spoke all those many long decades ago.
But, hey, we’re all seriously male and not anywhere near dead; and there’s no penalty for just looking, right?
Continuing.
We’re all loaded on a pre-war, not certain which war, by the way, bus which stank of fish, kimchee, and diesel fuel. We really don’t care even a tiny, iotic amount. It’s free transport, we’re tired of traveling, and not keen on walking any further than we absolutely have to.
Viv has been passing out boozy little liquor miniatures, and I’ve been handing out cigars since I bought a metric shitload back in Dubai Duty-Free and somehow got them all through customs.
We didn’t light up, as there was neither a driver nor handler present. So, we figured we’d all just wait on the cigars, and concentrate on having a little ground-level “Welcome to Best Korea” party until the powers that be got their collective shit together and provided drivers, herders, and handlers.
We sat there for 15 long minutes. Being the international ambassadors of amity and insobriety, we started making noises like “Hey! Where’s our fucking driver?” and “I am Doctor Academician! Of All State Russian Geological Survey! How dare you make me wait? ”
Suddenly, a couple of characters in ill-fitting gray suits and fake Rays Bans are outside the bus having a collective meltdown. Somehow, someone fucked up and put us on a ‘regular’ bus and not the ‘VIP’ bus. In other words, we got to see what the locals really got to ride around Pyongyang on instead of our supposed to be impressed by the bus that wasn’t there; but was now just arriving.
A spanking new purple-and-chrome Mercedes long-haul bus shows up. It even has our group name emblazoned above the placard that normally tells where the bus is headed or who it is for: “’국제 석유 지질 과학 연합’ [Gugje Seog-yu Jijil Gwahag Yeonhab] or ‘International Union of Petroleum Geological Sciences’”.
We are brusquely ordered off our present bus and into the opulent, obviously bespoke, bright yellow faux-leather interior Mercedes-Benz Tourismo RH M. It’s so new and so obviously a ploy to get us to think that all things here are so new and opulent, it even smells of that new car, ah, bus, aroma.
“Well, we’ll take care of that soon enough”, I muse, as the bus is equipped with ashtrays and we’re going on the scenic route to our hotel, which is only 25 or so kilometers from the airport. However, it was announced that it’ll take us about 2 hours to get to our hotel since we need to see the city in its best light and get a feeling for the town if we should ever find ourselves lost and alone.
We all know what’s going on. They’re getting our rooms ‘ready’ for our arrival and need some extra time to make sure everything’s all wired in and transmitting properly.
“Guys”, I muse to our new handlers, “I’ve been to the Soviet Union, pre-wall fall. I stayed in places where I was definitely among the first westerners ever to grace their porticos. We’re a busload of natural scientists, of eight different nationalities, covering the economic spectrum from staunch capitalism to sociable socialism to hard-core communism. You even think for a second we’re going to spill any beans about anything you’d find interesting or useful? Think again.”
In fact, it would become a running joke between us all to see what sort of fake bombshells we could drop into the normal conversation what would give the listener’s the greatest case of the jibblies.
But for now, our bags were all loaded into the cargo compartment of this very, very nice, I must admit, mode of conveyance. Our handlers: ‘Yuk’, ‘No’, ‘Man’, and ‘Kong’, are all seated upfront and please with their latest tally of bodies. We have a couple of shady fellow travelers with the knock-off Ray-Bans and shiny gray suits that just appeared out of the woodwork in the back, seated by the loo, watching over all of us, and we’re going on a fucking city tour, whether we like it or not.
We’re all present and accounted for. Let’s keep our camera in our bags for the time being as the drinking and smoking lights had just been lit as the bus fired up its new German-engineered and machined precision diesel engine.
The bus rumbled to life and after a moment or two of checking that all dials, gauges, and indicators were where they were supposed to be; without so much as a cursory glance, we pulled out into traffic.
Except there was none.
Not another bus, pushbike, tap-tap, scooter, car, truck, hover-board, or motorcycle in sight.
Nothing.
Seems we were a big deal. They shut down the main drag so we wouldn’t be encumbered by such proletariat things like traffic jams or people-things cluttering the roadway, clambering for a look at the Western scientific cadre.
So, away we whizzed, sans traffic and into the very belly of the beast, and onward; eventually, towards our hotel.
Our handlers were very kind to point out passing scenes of interest.
“Look, look! There’s the Potong River. Notice all the lovely birds, ‘eh what? See the Norwegian Blue? Beautiful plumage!”
“See here, look. Here’s the Taedong River. Many forms of fish in the river. Maybe we’ll see some fishermen. If you like, we can stop, and ask them about today’s catch.”
We all declined, as we were certain that the fish the ‘random fisherman’ we’d talk to was flown in fresh from elsewhere earlier in the day.
Besides, we were comfortable. We had our drinks, our cigars, and we were leaving the driving to someone else.
After being driven around the city and seeing all the wonderful monuments, like the faux Arch of Triumph, which looks exactly unlike its namesake Arc de Triomphe de l'Étoile in Paris.
The Arch of Reunification, a monument to the goal of a reunified Korea, which, by necessity, is unfinished. Then there’s the Tomb of King Tongmyŏng, where people are lining up, just dying’ to get in.
Finally, we all called for our hotel, the Yanggakdo, after yet another mausoleum, the Kumsusan Memorial Palace of the Sun.
Arches or tombs. Such a stunning array of monuments and places of less than moderate interest.
We were interested in Mirae Scientists street (Future Scientists street). It is a street in a newly developed area in Pyongyang to house scientific institutions of the Kim Chaek University of Technology and its employees. But we were told that it was too late, there was not much there to see, we needed to express written permission to visit, and we’d be going there tomorrow or next week.
We wheel into the parking lot of the Yanggakdo Hotel and are immediately unimpressed by the pseudo-Baroque concrete fiasco that appears to stand, wobbly, before us. It’s a page right out of the Soviet Construction-For-The-Masses Handbook. A cold, gray concrete edifice with multitudes of seemingly little, tiny windows. A perfect metaphor for our travels thus far; look at the expansiveness of Best Korean wonders, through this pinhole.
However, we judged too soon. We were told to go inside and check-in, whilst our luggage would be de-bussed for us and handled by the expertly efficient hotel staff. The lobby was opulent, tastefully laid out in earth tones of facades of veneers of marble, granite, some garnet-mica schist, if my hand lens doesn’t lie, some Prepaleozoic anatectic migmatite, displaying intricate and intense plication, xenoliths, and graphic delineation of minerals by segregation through melting points. There was a gigantic well-appointed and well kept up aquarium, complete with snuffling sharks and nuclear-submarine sized groupers.
Very handsome indeed. Impressions increasing slightly.
Then we see that there’s a bloody casino on the bottom floor of the hotel, several bars interspersed throughout the hotel, and karaoke, of which I’m not terribly fond, but some of my European counterparts almost swooned at the prospect. There are a large pool and weight rooms/gymnasia, saunas and places to relax outside of one’s room, but still under the watchful eye of the thousands of ill-concealed video cameras at every turn.
“Covert surveillance” may be a thing in Best Korea, but it’s a practice still leaves a lot to be desired. The Eastern Siberian Russians back before the wall fell were more covert with their obvious button audio microphones woven into the fabric covering the headboard of your Intourist bed than the Best Koreans here. Their cameras were ‘disguised’ as flower arrangements, overhead lights, and speakers inexplicably placed into things like standing ashtrays, refuse bins, and randomly placed holes in the wall.
The floors were all covered with exquisite what looked to be hand-woven rugs of most vibrant crimson and gold; the usual Communistic colors. Always with some sort of floral pattern or pattern that’s supposed to be reflective of nature, as I was told. Evidently, for workers to remember what nature was as they don’t get out much with 14 to 16 hours workdays here in the Worker’s Paradise.
Enough of the travelogue; we all wander up to the front desk, and each with their own passport in hand, request our reserved rooms. We supposed that we would all have rooms on different floors as the reservations were made, expired, re-made, juggled, rebooked, allowed to expire, re-jiggered, and finally formalized a scant week before we left the UK.
Nope. No such luck. We were all on the 39th floor. The place boasts 47 floors, of which, the top floor is a revolving restaurant. Evidently, food tastes better when you’re rotating.
However, it won’t spin unless you first buy a drink.
We had that thing whirling like a NASA centrifuge after its discovery the second night.
Yeah, all 12 of us are bivouacked on the 39th floor. A floor with approximately 30 rooms.
I guess we could have played “Room Roulette” and see who got which room and who’s luggage. Or we could switch every day or two to drive our handlers nuts. Or, we could just take our assigned rooms, which were conveniently located one empty room apart.
Meaning, no one had adjoining rooms. Why? Fuck if I know. We didn’t spend much time in our rooms, and that time was either sleeping or showering. We’d all meet at the bar, casino, restaurant, karaoke, bowling alley (all three lanes) or actual meeting rooms every once in a while when we thought we should get together and compare notes. It was the most inexplicable situation.
Plus, we spent an inordinate amount of time waiting on the fucking elevators to take us to our room. These elevators, and if you think you’re going to get a batch of aging senior scientists to schlep it up 39 floor’s worth of stairs, think again; are the slowest elevators in the civilized world. And that was the consensus of scientists representing not only Europe and North America, but Russia as well. 15-25 minutes added to each journey, up or down; stopping on every floor, except 5, on the way down..
Jesus Q. Fuck, dudes. If you can’t construct a bleedin’ elevator that works better than those at the Sozvezdie Medveditsy Guest House in Lesosibirsk, Eastern Siberia; then I suggest you seriously rethink your plans for world domination and new world order.
Grako and Erwin once, while waiting for the fucking elevator, figured out that we were earning some US$25 each just to wait for the lift to arrive and take us to our rooms. Every day. Sometimes several times per day.
With that, we all agreed to toss our “waiting time” funds into a kitty and on our last day of captivity here, blow it all in the hotel casino. Whatever became of that would be donated to the Koreans we thought most deserving of our largesse.
Would it be our handlers? How about the Korean Scientists we’d be meeting? The affable and most accommodating concierge? Or that plucky little Korean charwoman who was always on our floor and kept everything spotless, right down to our freshly laundered and pressed field clothes and newly polished field boots; done without our requesting or knowledge?
Only time would tell.
It could be a fortune or it could be bupkiss. Just like our expectations of the Heavenly Kingdom where we were currently sequestered.
As it was, with our official protestations, they kept only photocopies of our passports as we roundly refused and threatened a full-scale karaoke battle right here in the lobby if they didn’t relinquish our passports immediately. I had broken out my nastiest cigar and was primed to offend.
With that, we all had our keys and trooped over to the elevators for our first, of many, inexplicable waits. We made many uncharitable and potentially nasty remarks about the Anti-Western posters that made up some of the wall décor. Once we finally made it to our floor, we all fanned out to find our rooms. Viv found his first and was quite pleased to report to the rest of us that there was a “Welcome” basket in his room.
We all hoped that we would be receiving one a well.
I was in room 3914; which I considered a close call, but later only wondered as there was no 3913. Upon entering, I saw it was 1980s Hotel 6 opulent, but with an excellent over-city view. True it was late, dark, and the city was only somewhat lit up; I was looking forward to the view of the town in full daylight.
The room had a ‘king’ bed; that is if the king in question was Tutankhamen, the stubby, Egyptian boy king. The bed had no mattress pad and no box spring but it was hard enough for my liking. Many of my compatriots didn’t agree and complained bitterly. They eventually received thin mattress pads for all their kvetching.
There was an ancient Japanese color television, which only had 2 English language channels - Al Jazeera and the BBC, which was on a dated news loop. Watching the local channel is amusing though; the ads for ‘personal enhancements’ were hilarious, even without understanding a word of the language.
There were a couple of chairs and a low table, built-in dresser drawers for our clothes, a rusty and probably unusable room safe with corroded batteries, a small table built out of the wall that would serve as my travel office, and would-you-believe, a rotary telephone; how’s that for nostalgia?
There was an old-model radio built into the nightstand next to the bed. I was very surprised to find it not only received AM, FM but shortwave as well. I had brought along a pair of Bose headphones and during some rainy down days, spent many fun-filled, and I mean that sincerely, hours DXing from the comfort of my ‘enormous’ king bed.
Beyond that, the room was very nondescript. Like any other of the millions of rooms in hotels around the world that unlike here, aren’t claiming a 5-star rating. I mean, it was clean, if not a little long in the tooth. But didn’t smell too terrible, even after I took care of that with my Camacho offerings. It was utilitarian, everything worked, even the water pressure, which surprisingly could strip off layers of one’s skin if you weren’t careful.
The bathroom, though no Jacuzzi, had a large enough bathtub for the occasional soaking period. Western accouterments in the bathroom were also welcome additions. My knees can’t handle the traditional squat-holes any longer.
There were an electric teapot and several brands of tea, but no coffee. A quick “Gee! I sure wish I had some coffee!” to the four walls and damned if 30 minutes later, a porter didn’t arrive to replenish my tea and courtesy in-room coffee…
There was a small Japanese brand in-room refrigerator which I thought might house a mini-bar. Oh, no! It was actually a complimentary larder stocked with all sorts of Best Korean goodies. Multiple cans of Taedonggang beer. Several bottles of Pyongyang Soju, in various flavors ranging anywhere from 16.8 to 53 percent alcohol by volume. My fridge was skewed towards the right-hand side of the bell curve; the more heavy-duty boozy side.
Evidently, my reputation had preceded me again.
There was a selection of German-style wheat beers from the Taedonggang Brewery and the more familiar ales, steam beers, and lagers. There were some imported beers like Heineken, Bavaria, Pils, a couple of Japanese brands: Asahi and Kirin, and something called ‘Hello Beer’ from Singapore.
There were also ‘sampler’ bottles of Apricot Pit wine, and a couple of high-alcohol fruity liquors made from constituents such as apple or pear, and mushrooms. There were also special medicinal liquors like ‘Rason’s Seal Penis Liquor’.
That is going home with me unopened.
There were a couple of bottles of local sake, called Chonju. Finally, there was a couple ‘samplers’ of homemade alcohol known as Makkoli. Plus there was something called ‘Corn Grotto’, which for the life of me, looks and tastes much like a very passable Kentucky Sippin’ Bourbon.
I put our concierge on instant danger money the very next day. He’s yet to source me more than a fifth of the stuff so far.
I found that there is a popular drink here which mirrors the Yorsch of Mother Russia. Beer and soju can be mixed to create *somaek’; a foamy, frothy, funky drink of many flavors, depending on the soju chosen.
Is ethnoimbibology at thing? The science of how different cultures drink and the effects of drinking culture on different societies. If not, now I have another Ph.D. to pursue after I endow a chair at some likely Asian university.
Anyways, in everyone’s room was a “welcome” basket, just chock full of Best Korean goodies. Postcards, stamps, ads for coin sets, stamp proofs and other goodies that could be purchased at the hotel. There was a field notebook, which I thought was a very nice addition, newspapers, cookies, crackers, biscuits, candies, fruit drinks, and some fresh fruit; although tamarind chewies and durian chips aren’t on my list of personal favorites.
There were a couple of tour books, just chock full of staged photos. These were very nice as well, as so far, we haven’t had much time for shopping outside of government stores or smaller family-run shops in town or out in the boonies.
A few of us were hungry and decided to see what the hotel had to offer room service-wise.
Bupkiss.
But, they did have a selection of restaurants. There is a Chinese restaurant, a European restaurant, and a Korean restaurant on site but they all serve the same food...a Best Korean attempt at western food. And it was weird being the only ones in the restaurant even though it was fully staffed.
We grazed lightly and decided to do some late-night perambulations around our hotel. Our handlers admonished us to stay within the confines of the hotel, or see them if it was absolutely necessary to go walkabout. In the hotel, we were on our own.
We found that there were tunnels in the hotel’s basement. The basement tunnels were a real bonus. There’s a bar with pool tables, a karaoke room, bowling, and a massage parlor, where I was beaten and pummeled into submission by tiny, diminutive, little Korean lassies fully 1/5th my size.
It was wonderful.
There was a hairdresser’s, who were completely befuddled by my shoulder-length silver-gray locks and full gray Grizzly Adams beard. They did provide a lovely shampoo/cranial massage though for the equivalent of US$2.
There were a couple of shops selling Chinese goods rather than local stuff, which was sort of disappointing, a cold noodle bar, and another casino. No shops selling Korean Communist propaganda posters, as I wanted to augment my Soviet-era collection. Perhaps I’ll find something in-country later on.
We were shocked to find that the casino had WiFi that was uncensored and we were able to access; after a fee of liquor miniatures and a cigar or two. We were supposed to have access to the global internet, not local intranet, from the universities that we would be visiting. However, all of that was under the heavily squinting eyes of handlers and guys in shiny suits wearing fake Ray-Bans.
I still had my secret satellite internet lash-up available, but that was iffy, a pain in the ass to set up, and ridiculously expensive. However, it did work on the 39th floor and the times I used it instead of wandering down to the tunnels, no one appeared to be the wiser. Thus far.
So typically, we’d just head to the basement casino with our laptops, iPads, and phones. Bam! Robert’s your Sister’s Husband, we could connect more-or-less free with the outside world; hence how you are reading this now.
Herro! “Yes, I’d sure like another beer. This time a porter, if you please.”
The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. Or the more they put into locks, the easier they are to pick.
Besides, we were told we’d have access to unfettered and free internet. OK, so we just found it for ourselves. Whaddya expect? We’re scientists, motherfucker, back off.
Ahem.
Back to reality.
The breakfast buffet the next morning had a wide choice of Asian and Western food, although the choices seemed to be the same every day. The main event was to beat the Chinese tourists to the egg station every morning. Breakfast always included fried eggs, a limited selection of pork, kippered fish, potatoes, rice, fruit, and a very Titanium-dioxide-white white bread
After a while, I took to going to the small market behind the lobby, buying some imported Chinese or Japanese nibbly bits and heading to the tunnels for a few breakfast beers before the long hard day’s work. It took almost a week, but I gained the trust of some of the workers in the tunnels and they showed me the on-site microbrewery at the hotel. It produced very passable, and very, very cheap beers of several varieties.
Liquid bread. Beer. Is there nothing it can’t do?
After breakfast our first day at the hotel, we were told to meet in the Conference Room “Il-sung” as we were going to have a ‘Welcome foreign imperialist scientists’ introduction and indoctrination.
Besides our handlers and the shiny-suit squad, there were several Korean folks we didn’t recognize. These were students, scientists, and scholars from the Kim Chaek University of Technology, Kim Il-sung University, the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology; all hailing from Pyongyang, and the University of Geology from North Hwanghae Province.
“Oh, marvelous”, Erlen remarked, “It’s going to be a bloody Chautauqua. We’ll be here all day.”
“Well”, I replied, “It could be worse. We could be on a bus headed off on another unscheduled road trip.”
As we found our seats, our Korean counterparts were busily setting up portable screens, like the ones your grandfather had for showing his 2.1 Googleplex worth of travel slides every Christmas or Thanksgiving get-together. They had a couple of ancient Chinese brand laptops that could have doubled for body armor, they were so thick and heavy.
While they fiddled with running cords for the overhead projectors and 16mm film projector; yes, it was going to be movie time as well, the hotel’s restaurant folks wheeled in carts laden with scones, cupcakes, and other sweet sorts of bakery. Another cart was wheeled in with pump-pots of hot water, tea, and coffee. Usual scientific meeting fare.
There was one final cart that made the day bearable. It held a pony keg of hotel micro-brewed beer on ice, with several dozen frosty mugs available for all who wanted to partake.
There were instantly 12 mugs that were spoken for.
I grabbed a cold beer and wandered around the conference room, sipping beer, chewing on an unlit cigar, and just trying to be pleasant to our hosts and their scientific guests. I was surprised when one North Korean professor, who spoke amazingly British-tinged English, offered me a light for my cigar.
“Is smoking allowed here?” I asked.
“Allowed?” he laughed heartily, “My good man, it’s practically a prerequisite.”
“Here then”, I said, offering him a nice, unctuous Camacho, “Try one of mine.”
Dr. P'ung Kwang-Seon of the North Korean University of Geology became my instant and lifelong friend at that moment.
We had a very nice chat, much to the chagrin of the gray suit cadre, who could hear what we were talking about, but probably didn’t understand anything beyond every 8th word.
After a while, we were asked to take our seats, after refreshing our drinks, and introduced to the group of Korean geoscientists we’d be interacting with during our stay here in Best Korea.
I tried to record every name, but between the students, other scholars, and professors from the various universities, I decided I’d ask for a list of participants once the day had worn on. After all, they had all our names, references, and resumes if the thick folio they kept referring to was any indication.
There were a couple of hours of introductions, as every one of the Korean geoscientists there introduced themselves, mostly through translators, told of their personal area of specialty, and their latest work.
Most were what would be considered geoscientists, but oddly enough, not one that you would consider a petroleum geoscientist, however tangentially.
There were geomorphologists, structural geologists, petrologists, mineralogists, marine geologists, engineering geologists, and seismologists. However, there were no stratigraphers, sedimentologists, paleontologists, or geochemists. We were all geoscientists, but apart from the obvious Korean:English disparity, it was as if we spoke different scientific languages as well.
That would be our first hurdle to overcome.
They had no oil industry here; none whatsoever, therefore why one would bother with the geosciences that fed directly into petroleum? That, in and of itself, would make it difficult to explore for oil in the country. Couple that with the fact that they’re so insular, think their version of ‘science’ is the best, at least that’s the official line, and think all other’s ‘science’ is capitalistic, substandard, and inferior doesn’t bode well for your country discovering anything either oily or gassy.
We were having another conclave around the beer keg, ack, err…a ‘coffee break’ and I mentioned this fact to my scientific colleagues.
“Guys”, I need input here, “We’re going to get precisely nowhere if they won’t even acknowledge that they have major problems from the start.”
Ivan replies, “Very true. I’ve seen this before back home. You get a group so entrenched in their own little corner of science, they can’t even accept or acknowledge that others exist. Not only exist but actually know more about a certain problem than do you.”
Dax joins the fray, “Sure, that’s very true, but who’s going to tell them this unfortunate fact? They could take that as a personal, national, and global insult. Imagine you’re at an international conference and a bunch of foreigners walk in just to tell you you’ve been doing it all wrong for the last 75 years.”
I add, “Remember, though. These characters are scientists as well. I think it’ll be a good measure of seeing what sort of science and scientist we’re dealing with here. If they are truly researchers, they’ll listen to and evaluate what we say as for veracity and accuracy. If they’re just a bunch of Commie goons; no offense, Comrade Academician Ivan, they’ll get all pissed off, kick us out, and we get to go home and enjoy our triple Force Majeure pay.”
Ivan walks over and deliberately steps on the toes of my newly polished field boots.
“In Soviet Russia, field boots walk on YOU.” He laughs in his heavily inflected, and scary, Soviet-era speech…
“Yes, I agree”, Joon adds, “But who is going to address this issue with our hosts? Perhaps one of our Russian comrades, as they are, or were, more politically aligned with our Korean friends and perhaps best understand the issue?”
Ack speaks up, grinning maniacally, “No, I disagree. We should have the one person here who so encapsulates the ideologies and political leanings that they love to hate here so much. You know; the quiet, diminutive, and soft-spoken North American…”
Dax recoils, “Oh, no! I’m not going out in front of this mob of ornery Orientals…”
I smile wanly and tell Dax to cool out.
“Relax, Dax. They’re talking about me.”
“Oh, yes”, a collective group of voices replies, “Yes. Let out fearless Team Leader break the bad news to our Eastern Colleagues. That way we can gauge their reactions to being bounced around scientifically by a member of the Evil Capitalist Cartel.”
“OK”, I reply, “I’ll do it. But be forewarned, my fine feathered fiends. I get stuck on a topic that’s not precisely my bailiwick, I’m going to throw your ass to the wolves. Remember, we’re all in this together.”
Whoops, and catcalls were reduced to mumbles and ‘Aw, fucks.’.
Chautauqua resumption was called and I asked for the floor.
It was a bit off the agenda, but since they’ve been chewing the air for the last several hours, they understood it would be appropriate for us to at least try and get a word in edgewise.
I downed my beer, and grabbed a fresh one as what I was going to say was going to be harsh, cut-and-dried, and rather pointed. But delivered in a pleasant manner.
I hoped.
This all had to be filtered through a series of translators, one for general conversational Korean and another for the more technical and scientific transliterations. I realized I was going to be up here for a while. So, I brought a cigar.
One way or another, I was going to deliver our pronouncements and hell, I may as well be comfortable while doing it.
.
“Greetings and felicitations, my Eastern Colleagues. Let me first say how nice it is to be here in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea as part of the ….”
I’m going to fast-forward through all the flowery bullshit and introductory happiness; I’ll going to just cut to the guts of the matter.
“…Now, you do know why there has been virtually no oil, gas nor any other hydrocarbon related deposit discovered here in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?” I asked by way of a rhetorical question.
I sipped my beer and lit my cigar. In for a chon, in for a won.
I let the buzzing subside on the side of our eastern counterparts.
“Because, and please do not take this as insulting or derogatory, but as a statement of irrefutable fact, no one with the proper training nor experience has been looking. You’re historically guilty of applying the science incorrectly and letting dogma and politics guide your search, instead of the scientific method and the facts. Geology, like all natural science, is just as truth based on the facts for a capitalist as it is for a communist. Reality is not influenced by your beliefs, be they scientific or political, secular or spiritual, ‘trusted’ rather than ‘thought’; any more than by your wish that it wouldn’t rain today during a raging thunderstorm.”
Little Boy over Hiroshima was dropped with less effect.
Our Democratic People's Republic of Korea colleagues erupted into a chaotic mixture of stuttering, internecine yelling, accusations, and sputtering.
Calling for decorum, I figured that since I was this far gone, I may as well push the plunger all the way to the bottom.
“Gentlemen, I do not denigrate the science of geology as taught and practiced here in Best Korea.” I actually said that, sort of a slip of the tongue. Continuing, “However, one would not fish for Bluefin tuna from a rowboat in a pond with a fly rod. One does not hunt bear in the city with a slingshot. Just as one doesn’t search for oil and gas with mining engineers, geomorphologists, and seismologists.”
I let that sink in and after the translation, they calmed a bit and wanted to hear the rest of what I had to say. I could sense a couple was less than thrilled with what I had to say, but forging onward…
“One fishes for Bluefin tuna in the deep ocean with huge rods, reels and a specialist boat captained by someone with deep experience in hunting the elusive fish. One hunts bear in the proper environment, the taiga or forest, with the proper tools and guided by one with the education, learnedness, and experience to know how to make the hunt come out successful.”
Hit them with some analogies they can relate to and digest. Now, go for the carotid.
“Just like one does not hunt oil and gas without stratigraphers, sedimentologists, geophysicists, petrophysicists, and other oil and gas experts who have the education, experience, and knowledge to know where to look. Knowing which environment looks most conductive to hide your quarry, if you’ll pardon the pun, and how best to find them, the guys who know how to corral and de-risk them once you find them, and the engineers and technologists who know how to bring them to the surface so they can be utilized.”
They had stopped being irritated and were listening in rapt attention.
“My colleagues and I have spent the last few days going over, in detail the geology of your country. There is nothing we can see that would preclude the development, entrapment, and preservation of economic quantities of oil and gas. Ture, the geology is quite complex as is the structural history of the entire peninsula. That’s one other thing you will have to accept. Geology doesn’t give the tiniest shit about political boundaries. One must look at the big picture, and that doesn’t stop at some man-made borders. Ignore that fact at your peril, because if you continue to view the geology here as not existing across political boundaries, you are preadapting yourself for failure.”
Drs. Ivan, Volna, and Morse make certain that everyone sees the ex-Soviets agreeing with the bushy-bearded, cigar-chomping American capitalist.
“So,” I said, hoping to bring this little spit-balling session to a fortuitous close, “If we can have an agreement; scientific agreement, on these points, then I am certain we can find a way forward with not only this discussion but the program we can devise for the best Korean (notice phase shift?) geologists to take the project forward both scientifically soundly and economically successful.”
My North Korean counterpart gets up from his seat in the conference room, goes to the keg, taps a couple of beers and walks up to the podium where I was standing.
“Thank you, Dr. Rocknocker, for saying what needed to be said”, he spoke in perfect English as he handed me a beer.
I grinned and gratefully accepted the beer.
“Why, Dr. Chang Kwang-Su”, I said, as that was his name, “You old fraud. You do speak English; and very well, I must add.”
“Yes, almost all of us do”, he relayed, “But, as you said, we are most reserved. We were more or less under orders of the ‘most illustrious’, to play coy, and act as if we spoke no English.”
“I see.” I said, “I’ve worked in several FSU countries as well as Russia and saw that there as well. I guess old habits die hard.”
“That they do, Doctor.”, he replied, “But, we must now tell you the truth. We knew exactly what you said is true, and we agree. We are not as totally insulated from the outside world as some suspect.”
“Well, I was going on what your superiors related to us. Like the police that had all their toilets stolen, I had nothing else to go on.” I replied.
“Ah, ha! Quite!”, he chuckled, “We had long suspected that we were lacking in certain areas of scholarship. What you said cements that fact as it was an independent conclusion. We can now present that to our superiors with the caveat that unless we bolster work and training in these areas, the hunt of hydrocarbon resources here will be for naught.”
“I am relieved”, I said, truthfully. “I was slightly concerned that some might take umbrage to being told their science is not up to specifications. I tried to be the bearer of that bad news but deliver it gently. Here, I find you need that to use that as a truncheon to smack one’s boss upside the head and tell him that an upgrade is required. And fast.”
“Ah, so”, he replies, “We are in total agreement. Now that is out of the way, we would appreciate it if you’d help in designing a course of study for up and coming local geoscientists. Then, we can go forward with a great plan to search for oil and gas here in…Korea. Correct?”
“Absolutely”, I remarked, “You’ve got over 400 man-years of science and exploration expertise here in this room alone. Let’s shoot for the moon, so to speak. Let’s get you up to speed on scientific journals and articles that are available out there in all of academia and industry. Let’s get you communicating on a global basis. Let’s prove that you can talk science with global scientists and still not have it affect your political or nationalistic aspirations one little bit. Let’s see if we can drag you, figuratively speaking, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.”
“Doctor”, Dr. Chang remarked, “You are the embodiment of what we were always told what Americans are. Brash, loud, confident, and evil. Except for evil, you are American as we were led to believe.”
“Hey, I take that as a compliment”, I exclaim. “You think that’s bad, I’ve got a bunch of earnest Europeans, raucous Russians, and a couple of cagey Canadians on my side as well. Before we’re finished here, we’ll have you ordering hachee, dining on Caldo Verde, snacking on salmiakki, drinking Russkaya vodka with Pabst Blue Ribbon beer, eating poutine, and rooting for the Packers.”
“Doctor, I don’t know what half of that means, but I hope it comes to pass. It sounds most fascinating.” Dr. Chang chuckles.
The rest of the day was spent with various groups crystallizing and breaking off from the main crowd; then reforming as different groups. This was good, as it showed an interest across not only national borders but across ideologies and scientific specialties.
Most everyone here spoke English with some degree of fluency, so the translators were called in only occasionally.
I made certain they were included in everything that transpired that day. I want everyone to feel ‘part of the team’. How better to show the classlessness of Western science to include everyone in on both sides of every discussion and activity?
To be continued…

Click HERE to submit your questions in the #ama_questions channel. All non-questions will be deleted in order to keep the channel clean for the AMA, along with anything abusive, so please keep it polite but feel free to ask anything you want, as long as it's Stars Rewards related.
I'll update this post with the full AMA once it has concluded.
For anyone who misses the AMA, still feel free to submit your questions as the Stars Rewards team will hang out in Discord and keep answering questions throughout the next week.
Edit: Clarification
Full AMA:
July 7, 2017 Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:02 PM Hello @everyone and welcome to today's AMA! We've received a lot of questions and feedback regarding the new Stars Rewards program and we wanted to take the time to address as many of them as possible. So, on that note, it is my pleasure to introduce @Dylan | Ravageur . Dylan is the Head of Customer Loyalty at PokerStars and has overseen the transition and launch of the new Stars Rewards program. He has been with PokerStars for over 6 years and is here to answer your questions today :smiley:
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:04 PM Hi Pete, thanks for having me on here. Looking forward to diving in to the questions and will do my best to provide some answers.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:06 PM Welcome welcome :smiley: I know you've been crazy busy putting this whole thing together, so let's jump straight in with some of the harder ones so that we can address them while our brains are still fresh... "PokerStars hate winning players and is doing everything to destroy online poker and turn it into casino? Do you really think your customers don’t understand what you’re doing? Shame on you"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:11 PM Oof, jumping right into the deep end I see. Well here we go...
We designed Stars Rewards to offer better rewards to net-depositing players than winning players as these players ultimately drive the poker economy. We want to encourage players to win at the table using their skill rather than playing primarily to maximise returns. One of the main differences between this program and the VIP Club system is that it ensures that volume is not a decisive factor like it was in the past to receive meaningful rewards.
It's not that we don't love winning poker players - we do. However, there's a difference between appreciating and celebrating winning poker players versus giving them additional rakeback on their winnings. A lot has changed over the course of eleven years since the VIP Club was first designed, and the online poker landscape is a different place now that needs a new program that better serves our diverse customer base. Since we implemented the changes in 2016 to reduce rewards for the highest-volume players, more hands are seeing the flop which indicates a more appealing table-dynamic and deposits are lasting longer for new and casual players. We no longer believe that the previous approach which allocated the majority of the rewards to winning high-volume players is the right direction for us.
I appreciate that this is not what many of you want to hear, and the significance of these changes is not lost on us. Our goal is to grow poker as a whole and a new and better designed rewards program is an important step towards achieving this.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:13 PM So, in simple terms, the goal is to keep net-depositing players playing the game, adding more money to the economy?
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:14 PM Put very simply, yes. The goal is to engage and retain new and casual depositing players, who are ultimately the backbone of the poker economy.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:16 PM Ok, thanks for the clarity there :smiley: We'll move swiftly on to another tough one... "Will PokerStars pocket the rakeback decrease or will it just be more distributed to losing players?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:20 PM I am already sensing a trend....
The overall percentage will decrease for poker. Casino and sportsbook will of course see an increase as they're giving more rewards where they previously hadn't. Loyalty remains our most significant spend as a company and we will continue to invest in the development and engagement of our players. We invest in poker far more than anybody else and we play to continue to invest in our innovations and our marketing. We announced this week that we are picking up the tab for 60,000 PKR customers left in the cold without their bankrolls, we've hired Usain Bolt and Kevin Hart to reach out beyond the current poker base to bring new people to the game, and with the launch of PokerStars PowerUp, a new poker product, we are again trying to bring in new players to the game and reactivate players.
This kind of stability & resilience comes at a price, but we believe these changes are working. The company and the ecosystem is healthier, and we believe recreational players are having more fun.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:23 PM Well then, that leads perfectly on to "I see people justifying the changes by saying it goes to recs yet I haven’t seen stats that they say the same amount of rakeback is being paid out?" asked by @Gosha(edited)
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:28 PM Because the program is personalised to each player, I don't think I'll be able to satisfy that question. I can share that most of our recreational players will receive a similar level of rewards as before, and in many cases players will receive more rewards.
I've heard a lot of players in the questions thread claiming that the program only offers 5% in rewards, but recreational players will receive much more than that and this is across the full spectrum of our player base. As an example, there are former Supernova VIPs who are now receiving more with Stars Rewards than they did in our previous program.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:30 PM Ah, that somewhat addresses my next question already "Can we get a tangible figure for RB now that the new rewards are in place? Party does 40%"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:34 PM Yes I think it does. The short answer is that Stars Rewards is not a traditional rakeback program. Rewards are personalised and can vary based on recent activity.
We cannot guarantee a specific level of rewards for any given player givena few factors:
-The rewards inside Chests are randomised -Progress bar requirements are personalised and may change based on recent activity. For example, a long-term winning player will need to earn more reward points to unlock a given Chest than a net-depositing player -Players receive additional reward points in Chests which are also randomised -Players who play more frequently will benefit from boosts, which net you double reward points when boosted.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:38 PM Given the untraditional nature of the Rewards program, people are finding it hard to find ways to compare it to the old one, maybe you can help with this? "Hey, greetings! My question as i have not yet understood ( and dont think it has been specified at all), is what is the ev of rakeback that the company is giving back? I understand that rewards are randomized and for 1 chest people can get different rewards depending on their vip status. But what i dont understand is how ev rakeback should a goldstar or a silverstar for instance expect to get on 1 month? with the previous system , to say , we knew a goldstar could get minimum 100 usd per month and platinum star 300. what is the difference ev wise in the new system? Thanks"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:39 PM That's a good question. First - Stars Rewards is a significant departure from the previous VIP Club program and it's very difficult to compare the two as it's apples and oranges. In general terms if you are a long-term winning player you will be receiving less rewards than previously. Other players will be receiving a similar level of rewards, or more, with Stars Rewards.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:46 PM Since we're changing things quite drastically for the winning players, maybe you can help explain where we received our positive feedback? "I would really like to know where the positive feedback has been found regarding Stars Rewards. Since I havent heard a single positive word from people I rate highly that have gotten their rakeback slashed from 27-35% to 4-5%" This question was asked both by @BarreMolenaar "LordBarre II" and @TilTinDuCeR
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:49 PM I had a feeling this one was coming :). A lot of what is posted about the program on forums and in the press originates mostly from winning players, who understandably are upset that they are receiving fewer rewards than previously. The program is designed to appeal more to recreational players. The level of engagement we have seen with the program so far in Denmark and Italy has exceeded our expectations. We have been reaching out since those launches to speak to recreational players about their experiences with Stars Rewards and the majority prefer the new program than the previous one.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:51 PM Speaking of the launches in Italy and Denmark, we received this question about how the launches there seemed "sketchy at best"... "Why did you switch from a transparent system to a non-transparent, “individual” one? I personally believe that the poker industry especially needs to be as transparent as possible. The way this has been rolled out in Italy and Denmark so far seems sketchy at best."
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:54 PM I agree that the poker industry needs to be as transparent as possible. However, while Stars Rewards is "individual" as he says, the probabilities and prize values for each Chest are published on our website and you can see how many points you need to unlock a Chest by clicking on your progress bar or visiting the 'My Stars' portal. In addition to the 'normal' Chest values on our webpage, there will be additional top prizes on a regular basis such as the $1,000 Chests we are currently awarding for launch.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 5:56 PM A recent question from @Croakspkr which ties in well with transparency... "why cant i review how many chests i've opened yet and what i got from them?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 5:58 PM You can contact Support at any time to receive a full audit of your Chests and everything that was in them. However, I agree that it would be beneficial if you could review them in-client, so I will add this to the list of future developments we'd like to add. Thanks for the feedback/suggestion @Croakspkr
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:01 PM And this one has come in from @Artello referencing a previous question... ""As an example, there are former Supernova VIPs who are now receiving more with Stars Rewards than they did in our previous program." It doesn't sound logical at all with rewards we have, unless some regs hit 1k from chests (which is luck, not a statistic)."
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:03 PM Just to clarify, long-term winning Supernova VIPs will be receiving much less. However, there are net-depositing former Supernovas who are receiving a similar level of rewards, and in some cases more. That isn't assuming they get lucky or win a $1K Chest.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:05 PM In terms of the rewards in general, there has been a lot of feedback regarding how different the size and frequency of the rewards are compared to what people are used to. That feedback has been accurately summed up by @IFlipBurgers in this question: "Do you believe that rewarding people with extremely small rewards (compared to the buyin of the games they play) at a high frequency gives them satisfaction and make them feel like a valued customer? So far, I've only heard feedback of people feeling insulted by these rewards and would go as far as to argue that they have a negative net effect on their playing experience, even compared to not receiving anything at all."
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:09 PM Unlike the previous program, Stars Rewards aims to reward players multiple times within a single session. Most of our players can only play a few times a month and we feel that offering them multiple opportunities to win something significant does, in fact, make them feel valued. Of course, there's no "one-size fits all" and some players would rather receive fewer Chests but that held a higher value, so there is a balance to be maintained. Like any other new product, we will be reviewing feedback from all our players and looking at the numbers to determine if we've found the right balance between frequency and value.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:11 PM That leads perfectly into "Are rewards completely finalised or are they very much experimental and subject to change?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:13 PM The rewards could change over time, yes, especially in regards to our top prizes. Currently we're awarding $1K Chests as the top prize, but, for example, when WCOOP comes around later this year Stars Rewards can award WCOOP tickets in Chests. In the future, these top prizes will change and can range from cash prizes, tickets, and exclusive physical items. FailFish1
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:15 PM Okay! :smiley: Thank you very much for digging into some of the nitty gritty about EV and reward amounts with me, now I'm going to address some of the questions we've received about how everything functions We received this question "hey, im fairly sure i was on like 80% towards 2k vpp and didnt receive anything for it. isnt it supposed to convert? is this a problem more people ran into or just me" from @don artie , perhaps you could clarify?
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:17 PM Good question, and that shouldn't be the case. Players received the full prorated StarsCoin value for their in-progress VIP Step when Stars Rewards launched. You can verify having received this credit by going to your StarsCoin audit in Tools -> History & Stats of the desktop client. You can also just shoot our Support an email and they can check on your behalf and makes sure that you received everything you should have.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:20 PM Thank you for clearing that up :smiley: Now, in terms of the exact functionality, @Scoobydubious asked: "When you open your chests, what are the coins for that go to the right side of the chest? I think theymight be purple if I recall correctly."(edited)
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:22 PM Purple?!! They are green, and those are reward points :smiley: You get reward points everytime you open a Chest, so that your progress towards your next one gets kick-started. In poker you earn 100 reward points for every $1 in rake/tournament fees paid with the exception of high-stakes cash games.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:23 PM On that note, from @Caribou "What is the least amount of points necessary to clear a red chest? How many points, on average, will net depositors need to clear a red chest?"
Dylan | Ravageur- Yesterday at 6:28 PM That's a good one. Reward point requriements can vary over time, but for example, some higher-volume recreational players need to earn 8,000 reward points to unlock our biggest Platinum Chest. They will also receive on average 800 points every time they open it. Some of these also receive a boost of 4,000 points every 8 hours from their last one. Effectively, they need to earn 3,200 reward points to earn their first Platinum Chest each day (which is worth about $23.50 on average).
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:33 PM So in terms of this being more weighted for net-depositing recreational players @SetMiningWithKings asked "So that I can make a decision whether this is a better thing for players, or for Pokerstars - Has your average revenue per player gone up or down when you account for the new programme being in place?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:35 PM We certainly hope to increase engagement in our playerbase which ultimately should increase revenues, but it's much too early to say what the impact of Stars Rewards is given we only just launched in most areas this week!
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:38 PM In that case, asked by @TilTinDuCeR "Question: Do you think you as a company understand the gaming industry enough to try to emulate it and accurately project the success of such endeavour?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:42 PM There has been a massive amount of effort and research across the company in preparing for Stars Rewards based on years of data and experience in the industry. We're confident that this is a step in the right direction, and early indications in Denmark and Italy support this as well. So I guess in short, yes. But we are of course also listening to our players on all our channels (here, other forums, social media, customer support, 1-1 discussions, etc.)
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:46 PM Speaking of feedback from the players, we're seeing a lot of people asking for a more specific breakdown of what they need to do to earn their chests. "is there anywhere we can check the least and the most points requiered for a certain chest?" from @monroymx
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:48 PM Each individual can always click on the progress bar to see how many reward points they need to unlock a Chest. However, because these targets can vary over time based on recent activity, they aren't being published.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:50 PM Ok, good to know that it's easy for people to see what they need to do then :smiley: Let's burn through another couple of quick ones and then wrap this thing up so I don't leep you all night. "Will players be able to weed out the rewards that they will never use?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:53 PM If I remember correctly that question was referencing not wanting to recievemore than one freeroll ticket in a day. This is a great suggestion and something that we are actively looking to add to Stars Rewards functionality. Ideally once you receive, for example, a freeroll ticket for a weekly freeroll, you shouldn't receive the same ticket until the following week (and that prize would be replaced by something that isn't redundant). It's on our list of future developments that we'd like to add, and I hope we can add it in the coming months.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:55 PM So, to quickly summarise a question that is being asked a lot, are there any plans to decrease rake? Spin and Go's and PLO seem to be mentioned a lot here "With such reduction in rewards to SN Winning players, is there a chance that (for example) Spin and go rake might be decreased a bit to compensate, because as of it is today, average 60$ limit player regular was earning around 44% of his overall profits from rakebacks, because there are a lot of regulars in the pool, only a handful of crushers get better results (in chipEV) than that to stay comfortable withouth rakeback" Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 6:57 PM That's a popular question. We are constantly evaluating pricing and the economy of each game. However, at this time there are no plans to decrease rake.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 6:57 PM That being the case... "Wouldn’t they be making more money if they brought back the old vip system which incentivized volume players coming back = more rake being paid?"
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 7:02 PM This is a good question as there are quite a lot of misconceptions out there on this topic. There is a very high overlap between "volume players" and "winning players". This is pretty intuitive given poker is a skill game and you improve the more you play. The poker economy is fuelled by deposits, which for the most part originate from low to medium-volume players. This is one of the main reason that the level of rewards players receive through Stars Rewards is not solely based on volume, so that we can allocate rewards to the players who contribute the most to the poker economy (and of course, our company).
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 7:05 PM Thank you for explaining that :smiley: Ok, I hope that this session has helped to clear things up for a few people, @Dylan | Ravageur thank you very much for taking the time out of your day to do this with us. I know that we haven't managed to address everything which we've been asked, but Dylan will be around throughout the coming week to hop in here and answer more FAQ as they arise. If there are an absolute tonne of questions, we will schedule a second AMA for some time next week :smiley:
Dylan | Ravageur - Yesterday at 7:08 PM Sure - thanks for having me Pete and I appreciate all the questions and feedback from the players. I know that not everyone will love the answers, but I'll continue to chime in here next weeek to try and answer questions as they come up. Sure - I'd be down to do this again. Cheers.
Pete Simm | Ice3lade - Yesterday at 7:09 PM Awesome, thank you again for joining us!

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